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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:15 am 
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I've been using Phantom's since 2005 and have had a chance to use several versions of the Phantom software and cameras. I think I started with version 606 and I'm up to 675-2 running my v7.1's and v7.3's. There were some good features that came and went such as contrast.

I tried to use the new PCC software and really like some of the features that it now incorporates, especially the autofocus and remote blackout. I was looking forward to ordering new cameras to take advantage of those features. Unfortunately, I won't be able to use it as I can't take measurements unless I have a scale in the picture. Since we aren't able to do that I guess I'll have to stick with my old cameras and software.

Is there anyway to be able to use a scale that isn't in the current picture with the PCC software? Don't people mostly use these cameras for quantitative rather than qualitative analysis?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:55 am 
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Hi Rob,

Thanks for your fidelity.

Contrast was replaced by gain, to avoid changing the black level of the video stream.

The operations of Pcc and Phantom are pretty similar as regard the measurements; in the last versions of Pcc, you have new features like inheriting the calibration from another cine.

You do not need to have a scale in the image, nor in Phantom neither in Pcc. It is enough to know a dimension of a visible object and the program will compute a scaling factor to display the coordinates in the chosen unit.

Without knowing the dimension of an object from the image, any software can measure position only in pixels.

Best regards,
Peter


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:45 am 
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Thanks for your reply. How do you inherit the scale from one cine to another in PCC? The version I have is 1.3.697.0. Everytime I try, it wants me to scale from something in the picture.

I understand people can generally scale from something in the picture, but when I'm looking at something that's only about 10 pixels wide and I'm trying to take measurements over several hundred pixels, my accuracy goes out the window. If the software is to be useful to me, it has to work like the old software, where I can take a snapshot or cine of a scale that takes the entire screen, and then apply that to all videos I want to analyze.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:34 am 
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The new versions (not released yet) have a Copy / Paste mechanism from one cine to another.

If I understand you correctly, you prefer to enter directly the Scale coefficient (for example inches/pixel) instead of clicking two points on image and indicate the size of the object.

For example, after clicking Calibrate you will be allowed to set manually the scale value as an alternative to the current procedure with two clicks on image and entering of the gauge length.
Would be this approach more convenient to you?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:47 am 
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Close :-).. I prefer to take a snapshot of a scale first thing in the morning and click on 2 points to set my scale coefficient. Then since my cameras don't move, the program remembers the same scale all day without having to enter a coefficient each time.

I'm using the cameras to track projectiles as I fire them at targets and into ballistic gelatin. I use 2 cameras orthogonally mounted centered parallel to the strike face of the target to capture pitch, yaw, and velocity. Sometimes the projectiles are as small as 2 grains and I have a 12 inch field of view.

It would be nice if the new software "remembered" the scale rather than having to copy/paste or type in the coefficient each time. All the software prior to PCC did this.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:22 am 
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In a general case you may have multiple cines in our application, from cameras or file, recording one or more different subjects from different distances.

So the calibration parameters are normally attached to a cine and cannot be shared from cine to cine.

Can your two cameras share the same calibration? If not, do you control them from different computers or different instances of the Phantom application on the same computer to be able to have different scale?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:13 am 
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Each camera has it's own dedicated computer. The calibration parameters aren't attached to a cine. When I take a snapshot of the scale, I calibrate based on the 2 points. Then, provided I don't restart the progam, it remembers the calibration.

After each event, I take my measurements, save the small part of interest, then record a new cine. If something happens, like a camera gets bumped, or we start a new program with a different field of view, I take another snapshot of a scale and recalibrate for the next recordings.

If I want to do a more in-depth analysis at a later date, I just pull up the snapshot for that day, calibrate, and then pull up all the videos for that date one at a time. When I'm analyzing a shot with 2 views at my desk, I generally run 2 different versions of Phantom on my desktop so that they don't rescale between each other. At the moment, I'm running 663 and 675-2.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:59 am 
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> When I'm analyzing a shot with 2 views at my desk, I generally run 2 different versions of Phantom on my desktop so that they don't rescale between each other. At the moment, I'm running 663 and 675-2.

You can run the same version multiple time; each instance will have its own independent data.

Phantom allows you to play only one cine at a time so you cannot open two cines with different scaling like in Pcc.

After this discussion - thanks for your patience, I started to think the older measurement model I wrote 15 years ago was more practical than I thought. I intend to add it as an option in Pcc/Preferences:

Measurements/application (like in Phantom) versus
Measurements/cine. (like now + copy/paste)

Would that solve your issues?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:02 pm 
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Absolutely! It will make it easier to do analysis and make it easier for me to keep pushing to make high speed video the standard for ballistic measurements.

I've tried running the same version multiple times. When I calibrate in the first window, it changes the calibration in the second window, even if I am looking at 2 different cines.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Hi,

I've taken a look at PCC-2, thanks for making the scale available :D I just have one more request, would it be possible to have it pull in the .bmp snapshot scale rather than requiring a 1 frame .cin scale? When I tried, it wouldn't let me pull in any files other than .cin's.

Thanks!!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Peter,

Sorry to revive this thread … but it is relevant in our workflow. For years we have been using .bmp’s as our calibration image for measurements and this feature seems to be missing in PCC. One of the major benefits of using a .bmp over a single frame .cin is that we can archive the files with the same filename (ie. 12345_01.bmp goes with 12345_01.cin).

PCC is able to capture the image and save as .bmp. However PCC will not open the .bmp. I too would like to see this function, available in legacy, restored.

Thanks,
BC

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Peter,

Sorry to revive this thread … but it is relevant in our workflow. For years we have been using .bmp’s as our calibration image for measurements and this feature seems to be missing in PCC. One of the major benefits of using a .bmp over a single frame .cin is that we can archive the files with the same filename (ie. 12345_01.bmp goes with 12345_01.cin).

PCC is able to capture the image and save as .bmp. However PCC will not open the .bmp. I too would like to see this function, available in legacy, restored.

Thanks,
BC

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Barry C. Chandler
US Army Redstone Test Center
Photographic Instrumentation Group (PIG)
TEDT-RT-MSM / Test Area One
Building 7814, Flight Road
Redstone Arsenal, Alabama 35898
Voice: 256.876.0269
DSN: 746.0269
EMail: barry.c.chandler2.ctr@mail.mil


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:28 am 
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Hi Barry,

Sorry for delay it seems our notifications from forums went down a few weeks ago. Operating with images in PCC would make it more complex and this feature is not used or requested by other customers.

If you want only to display images you can use Windows Paint or PhotoViewer.

Peter


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